Doctor's Wife - Disturbing Realization - Spoilers

[jhumor]

So I just realized something that I haven't seen anyone mention anywhere:

I was actually disturbed that again the Doctor didn't give the bad guy a chance.  Nor did the TARDIS, oh yes, cool special effects.  And no, House and the TARDIS can't co-exist, but why not make it about them not being able to co-exist?  Why make it about 'killing House'?  I don't know, but this "Doctor is a bad-ass killing right and left" is getting to me.

As is all the Rory dying bits.  Why is the Doctor so into killing people and SM so into killing Rory?

Comments

[xtricks]

Well, Nine is the only (nu) Doctor offhand I can think of who balked at killing people -- 10 wiped out the Rancoss and waved his hands and looked megalomaniac while he did it and he's allowed companions/events and circumstances to kill quite a few folks, as have many of the old Doctors as well.

Dr. Who isn't actually as light, fluffy and gentle as people seem to think and Eleven has made it clear from the beginning that pissing him off results in Very Bad Things.

[jhumor]

Ten had his dark times. Yes. But if you noticed, there was usually a "What the hell have I done?" that accompanied it. Or a "Is every living creature about to be wiped out by you." Making it pretty obvious it was a 'lesser of two evils choice.

I've been watching DW for the past 30 years, so I know it's not light. It always asked the hard questions - and no simple solutions. I'm pretty aware that it's chuck full of dark-times. But the only time I recall the Doctor ENJOYING killing others was when Seven blew up Skaro. And even then, it was a bit of 'last resort.'

That's what bothers me: Eleven seems to LIKE and ENJOY it. That's just not the Doctor to me.

[xtricks]

I guess I kind of feel that if a 900 year old super-genius alien that can travel time can't 'figure out' how to save x, y or z aliens from death there must be failure of will as well as failure of ability (plus, the writers like the angst).

As to 11s liking of that sort of thing ...11 very much seems to be a person determined not to regret, or angst or otherwise feel bad for actions he takes. After 10s over-the-top emo, I'm rather glad of that.

I've always seen the Doctor as a very morally gray person -- he's basically controlling human history and sometimes even to our detriment (Former Prime Minister Jones, for example -- remember, Nine said she'd bring about a new golden age and what is almost the first thing 10 does? Undermine her). There's a lot of thinky stuff about colonialism and gender relations and etc that goes on in Dr. Who and the Doctor is often on the not as sympathetic side of that as we might all wish.

[jhumor]

But I'm not talking about any of those things. Yes, the Doctor has been morally 'grey' in some situations. But, where is the Doctor who debated about ending the Daleks when he had the chance (and ultimately deciding against genocide?) where is the Doctor who THOUGHT about his actions before making them? Where is the Doctor who thought about what impacts his actions might ultimately have? Being morally grey doesn't mean you never think things through.

And who's to say Nine and Ten weren't BOTH right about PM Jones? Remember, if it hadn't been for her, the sub-wave network would have never worked. I happen to think the Daleks invading Earth and England being the location of the sub-wave, might have lead to Jones leading in a Golden Age for England, don't you? Might not have been the way she expected, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[evilawyer]

Oops...I meant to send this reply to you, but I can't tell who it went to from looking at my screen:

But if you noticed, there was usually a "What the hell have I done?" that accompanied it.

Also a matter of perception, both in terms of exactly what was being said/shown (was it "What the hell have I done?" or was it "What the hell just happened?") and why it was being felt in terms of external or internal direction (e.g. "I've done a terrible thing and I feel awful about that terrible thing because it caused harm to others" versus "I've done a terrible thing and I feel awful about that terrible thing because I was the one who did it and I don't having to admit to myself that I'm capable of doing terrible things").

Interesting point about Seven. I've always seen him as being more caught up in and loving the plotting and the game --- rather than loving the killing itself --- to the point of not caring about the killing at all. I find that even more disturbing than loving the killing frankly. Even so, the Doctor's always been a bit of a sociopath, which makes sense since that seems to be a trait of Time Lords when looked at through human sensibilities.

Ah, differing opinions and all their nuances. They are the spice of life! (And my hat goes off to everybody in this entire discussion thread for keeping it so polite and friendly. Can't say I see that elsewhere anymore. Sadly.)

[jhumor]

Also a matter of perception, both in terms of exactly what was being said/shown (was it "What the hell have I done?" or was it "What the hell just happened?")

Specifically with regard to the Racnoss, David Tennant himself said it was a "What have I done" moment of realization.

As to the others, that is one of those personality traits that seems to shift slightly from incarnation to incarnation (and writer to writer). But then, when the Doctor was swinging more towards the realm of "screw it and kill them all", the companions typically stopped him - or at least begged him to think before he took action. They didn't encourage him - which River certainly does. And Amy and Rose to varying degrees do/did as well.

I still say that the Doctor's downward spiral started with Adric's death - but that's another discussion altogether :P

[evilawyer]

David Tennant himself said it was a "What have I done" moment of realization

Ah, well, if he says that he meant to do, then it I guess that what it was supposed to be. I'm a little different than many TV show fans ---- I never listen to or read anything but the most surficial comments by actors as to what they were trying to do (which is why I won't watch those Confidential things that are on the New Who DVDs, even though I love the commentaries and special features about the productions on the Classic Who DVDs). Trusting my own instinct isn't something easily shaken, not even for fun TV watching.

I do agree that there is a difference in Classic and New companions and precisely what they do in terms of acting as a catalyst or enabler for the Doctor. Classic companions largely did not, as their function was to be instructed by or serve as a sounding board for the Doctor. New Who companions quite often exert influence, though not necessarily consciously, on the Doctor to act or behave in particular ways. Maybe it's supposed to be because there are no other Time Lords (mostly), I don't know. Sometimes it and the companion doing it bother me ***cough, Rose, cough***, other times I don't find it so egregious. However, whatever it is, it does seem to be something RTD felt was necessary to put in and, (and not making apologies for Moff here, just stating what I see to be a fact) it can't be dropped now or legions of New Who fans will not tune in because they've never seen (or aren't inclined to look for character continuity between Classic and New) any Classic Doctors and don't want to get used to anything other than what they've been treated to since 2005.

Poor Adric! Not a good day for the Doctor, that was for sure. (Even worse for Adric!) Not sure if that's where it all started to spiral out of control for Five, but I agree that he started off positive in outlook and shifted to darker by the end of his run, so much so that he wasn't really equipped for it. Not dark like Seven or Eleven (who are equipped for it), but life caught up with him. (Which is a theme I've already visited in essay form for Nine and Ten as well as Five, hence my hankering to finish up on the one I'm working on now; whether it ever sees the light of my computer screen is another story).